Restructuring of rulesThis discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.
Comments about this discussion:
Given that it seems we have some more time do anyone wanna take a look at the rules and suggest how they can be restructured (without changing them). I think there's some stuff around fouls and safety rules that it makes sense to restructure, but there may be more.
Here me suggestion from 6 months ago to have a starter:
Get our rules more logical sorted.
- Event flow
- followed with all what stops the event flow:
-- Safety, Goal shots, Fouls
I agree and can review and make suggestions on peoples psots but I am unlikely to have the time to write them up specifically as I am trying to do jumps/flatland/street/trials also
New Order V1 Comment 14A Overview 14A no change 14A.1 Preface 14A.1 no change 14A.2 Rider Summary 14A.2 no change 14B Competitor Rules 14B no change 14B.1 Unicycles 14B.1 no change
14B.2 Rider Identiﬁcation 14B.2 no change 14B.4 Sticks 14B.3
14B.5 Number Of Players 14B.4
14B.7 Event Flow 14B.5
14B.7.1 Game Duration 14B.5 .1
14B.7.2 Penalty Shootout 14B.5 .2
14B.7.3 Riding The Unicycle 14B.5 .3
14B.7.4 Contact With The Ball 14B.5 .4
14B.7.5 Start and Stop 14B.5 .5
14B.7.6 Restart After A Goal 14B.5 .6
14B.7.7 Ball Out Of Bounds 14B.5 .7
14B.7.8 Ball In Spokes 14B.5 .8
14B.10 Safety 14B.6
14B.10.1 Clothing 14B.6.1
14B.10.2 Throwing Sticks 14B.6.2
14B.10.3 Top Of The Stick 14B.6.3
14B.10.4 High Stick 14B.6.4
14B.10.5 Exaggerated Roughness 14B.6.5
14B.9 Goal Shots 14B.7
14B.9.1 Goal Shot With Arms Or Hands 14B.7.1
14B.9.2 Long Shot 14B.7.2
14B.9.3 Ball In The Outside Of The Net 14B.7.3
14B.8 Fouls 14B.8 no change 14B.8.1 General Considerations 14B.8.1 no change 14B.8.2 Right Of Way 14B.8.2 no change 14B.8.3 SUB (Stick Under Bike) 14B.8.3 no change 14B.8.4 SIB (Stick In Bike) 14B.8.4 no change 14B.8.5 Insults 14B.8.5 no change 14B.8.6 Moving The Goal 14B.8.6 no change 14B.8.7 Obstacle 14B.8.7 no change 14B.6 Penalties 14B.9
14B.6.1 Free Shot 14B.9.1
14B.6.2 6.5 M 14B.9.2
14B.6.3 Penalty Goal 14B.9.3
14B.6.4 Face-off 14B.9.4
14B.6.5 Penalty Box 14B.9.5
14B.3 Protests 14B.10
14C Judges and Officials Rules 14C no change 14C.1 Hockey Director 14C.1 no change 14C.2 Board of Referees 14C.2 no change 14C.2.1 Members Of The Board Of Referees 14C.2.1 no change 14C.2.2 The Referees 14C.2.2 no change 14C.2.3 The Secretary 14C.2.3 no change 14C.2.4 The Timer 14C.2.4 no change 14C.2.5 Before The Game 14C.2.5 no change 14C.2.6 General 14C.2.6 no change 14C.2.7 Referee Hand Signs 14C.2.7 no change 14D Event Organizer Rules 14D no change 14D.1 Venue 14D.1 no change 14D.2 Officials 14D.2 no change 14D.3 Playing Field 14D.3 no change 14D.3.1 Dimensions 14D.3.1 no change 14D.3.2 Goals 14D.3.2 no change 14D.3.3 Markings 14D.3.3 no change 14D.4 Ball 14D.4 no change 14D.5 Practice Time 14D.5 no change
This would be the changes in numbering in accordance to my above suggestion. (But I have no idea how to manage this in the system.)
Sorry now it looks like poor, in the preview it was a pretty good table.
Can you post this somewhere else (like a google doc) and share a link with the committee so we can see this in a better format.
May be this helps:
Thank you! Very helpful.
Great Job Herbert
I like most of yours.
I changed a few extra things and gave reasons why next to them I tried to put as much info as possible about what I changed and why.
I noted the level of heading that each rule would be so you can try and visualise what the rulebook would look like.
Any other comments?
Herbert, do you disagree with any of Steven's changes?
Can this get voted on?
I didn't think I would have any comments as I am not a hockey rider, however, to be consistent with the rest of the rulebook, Safety should have its own heading.
I think this can be voted on. As far as I can see the safety chapter will get its own heading so everything related to safety is collected there. The reason it would not have had its own heading before is that some of the safety rules are also in the fouls section whereas now all safety stuff is in a chapter and the rules simply say it's a foul to break a safety rule.
I did yet not have any time to look at Herberts proposal.
I hope I will have time next week and can comment on this discussion.
I think it is better to have fouls under the heading of fouls than fouls under the heading of safety and say it is a foul to break a safety rule.
You cant put ALL fouls under safety as certain things like "moving the goal" are not so much a safety rule. I believe it is awkward to split the fouls up in our rulebook, if someone is browsing to find a foul they will go to the foul section, having it under safety seems odd to me.
I am not sure what the best thing to do is. Keep just the clothing rule under safety? The only thing under safety that should specifically stay there is "Attention must be drawn to the safety of the players and spectators. Thus, the safety (change to foul) rules have to be obeyed strictly and all equipment must be in good condition."
Even that is a kind of redundant statement in my opinion. When does a rulebook say "make sure you follow the rules". The whole point of a rulebook is to be followed, why would someone be reading the rulebook if they didn't intend to follow them, specifically outlining to the reader that they should follow the rules seems quite stupid to me.
What comes under safety in other sections
Basketball has only that shoes must be worn and clothing suggestions. (Fouls including ones that may come under safety such as pushing triping striking or holding an opponent come under a separate heading "Fouls")
Trials has that riders must wear a helmet shin guards and shoes.
Track says Riders must wear shoes knee pads and clothes and riders on wheels larger than 24 class must also wear helmets.
In keeping with these, the heading of clothing should be removed and should come under safety with no heading. All other fouls should go to fouls where they belong.
I can see Scotts and Stevens points.
Keeping the heading "safety" (with 2 sub chapters), 14B.6
and move 3 safety rules under the heading of "fouls" 14B.8
Safety and Fouls are unchanged on the same level. Probably a compromise we can vote on.
Can this new structure from Herbert be made into a proposal and go to voting?
Exaggerated roughness already is in "general considerations" in fouls section so not sure if it should be in both. I would remove it from safety and leave it in fouls. Safety would just be clothing like every other discipline in the rulebook
In fouls section in "general considerations" the "Exaggerated roughness" is only mentioned in combination with "raising stick", as examples.
E.g. pushing somebody towards the wall or a harder body check I would call "Exaggerated roughness" as well.
If we follow Steven we have to to following:
Take out the words "Exaggerated roughness can lead to injuries and must be therefore be avoided." from the heading "Exaggerated roughness" and move them to "Fouls /General Considerations" as the second sentence just after "All players must take care not to endanger others."
Delete the left heading "Exaggerated roughness" from "Safety".
Delete only the heading "Clothing" and let their text as follow-on-text flow under the heading "safety".
This would be no change of rules, only moving rule text as a organization.
More opinions, only 2 days left for proposal!
I think the strategy you suggest for restructuring safety is good.
Only one day left to be made into a proposal. Some more comments from other voters?
If not, Magnus please go for proposal
For Revision: Please delete "(see section 14B.10.4)" In fouls section, chapter"general considerations". No link required any more.