14B.6.5 Penalty Box - Real duration of a send of?This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.
Comments about this discussion:
"The Referee can send a player oﬀ the ﬁeld for two minutes, ﬁve minutes or for the
remainder of the game. "
Very often a referee is only responsible only for one game in a tournament. On UNICONs the hockey director usually asks for volunteering experienced referrers for more games.
14C.2.4 The Timer Timer has no ruling task to stop the off send time (usual he will do if he got enough stop watches).
First we should give the timer as a member of the "Board of Referees" the official task to stop the time of send offs.
Second now it will become more complicate. How do you understand the send off time?
a. 2 and 5 minute only within one half of play time?
b. E.g. a 5 min-penalty within the last 2 minutes of the first halve time, would the punished player allowed to play within the first 3 min of the second halve time?
c. Sending off for the remainder of the game should be the hardest punishment a referee is able to give. This will only an effect if the remaining time to play is more than 5 min. Should there a punishment transferred to the next game his team should play?
Has these problems solved e.g. in the Australian or Swiss national league?
Any good ideas?
A 2 or 5 minute send off should carry over to the next half and should also be paused if time is stopped by the referee.
It should not carry over to the next game regardless of if opposition is different or same.
If a player is sent off for 2 minutes with 1 minute remaining in first half then they come back 1 minute after the second half starts.
The easiest way to do this is for the timer to note the time on the clock when the player is sent off, and what time that would mean they come back in whichever half. By noting what time they come it takes into account any paused time/half time that may occur in the game.
We haven't had this issue yet as I think we are yet to have someone sent off in a league game. Only having 9 teams means that people train with the opposition up to 3 times a week at regular training and know them quite well. They are less inclined to push the boundaries of fouls when they are quite close.
I agree that the time sent off should be carried over to the second half, as the player should be off for that amount of time during the game.
However, I do not feel like this penalty should carry over to their next game.
It could be a possibility that we include some kind of strike system? E.g. if a player is sent to the penalty box for x amount of times, they must not play for x amount of the following games in that given tournament. This would, of course, be a pretty extreme situation, but I guess it is possible.
Christian and i disgussed this and we have the same opinion.
Thank you for this discussion Herbert. I think this is something which should be clarified.
In Switzerland we do have sometimes that a player is sent off the field. But this is because we have strict rules and the referees are also thought to give penalty boxes.
In Switzerland we have the following rules:
The time is stopped when a player is sent off the field (this is necessary to have a distinct moment when the penalty box starts) and the timer takes the time for the penalty box. The penalty box is carried over to the next half but not to the next game. After the two or five minutes the speaker says that the player can come back in. I think this is the only way it makes sense.
In Switzerland we do distinguish between a penalty box of 2 and 5 minutes (“Strafe”/penalty box) and a penalty box for the remainder of the game (“Sperre”/suspension?). For a penalty box which is longer than 5 minutes we have special regulations. The whole team is only punished for 5 minutes. After this time, they can bring in a fifth player. But the player who was sent off the field cannot take part in this game anymore. He is also cannot play in his next game (also against another team). This is a penalty especially against this player but not against the team.
These rules are like in ice hockey where a player can get a misconduct penalty and cannot play anymore in this game but is replaced by another one after a given time period.
I agree the timer should ALWAYS be stopped when sending someone off, Everyone playing should understand what is being ruled in the situation that someone is being sent off so time should be stopped to allow a proper explanation. This also means the timer can note down the time they are penalied and when they would come back in whichever half it would be.
I don't mind the 5 min penalty resulting in missing the remainder of the game. I cant imagine a 5 min ever being used in our league but it still makes sense. I am not sure I agree with them missing out on the next game ALSO. It is hard as it seems like a very harsh penalty but a 5 min is also so harsh that maybe they deserve it?
Nicolai can you give some examples of what 5 min penalties people have been sent off for in your league that resulted in them missing the next game? I know the rules give examples of what people SHOULD get sent off for, but we have never had anyone come anywhere close to that
In the last years we didn't have any 5min penalty.
Maybe I was not clear with our rules. We do distinguish between a ("normal") 5 min penalty box and a send off for the remainder of the game. A player can get a 5 min penalty and come back in afterwards. Only in the second case the player is missing the remainder of the game and missing the next game. So to get a penalty for the remainder of the game either the player has already got a 5min penalty before or he does something which should be penalized with more than 5 min. I can't give any example as I don't know if we ever had such a situation.
Ah I understand.
A player missing the next game after being sent off for the remainder of a match is fair enough in my opinion. I am not opposed to that suggestion.
Would there be difficulty in enforcing a player missing his next game at a unicon tournament with the (dis)organisation that usually occurs?
I think there would have been a problem enforcing that rule at Unicon in Spain and Korea. I don't think we should let that stop us from updating the rules to reflect that a penalty can carry over throughout the tournament. When a player gets barred from a game the officials should give a clear note about this so it's remembered at the next game and the refs are informed the player is out.
"Would there be difficulty in enforcing a player missing his next game at a unicon tournament with the (dis)organisation that usually occurs?"
I think this would be okay if the Hockey Director/Secretary/Referees not down the player's name, shirt number (if they have one), and anything else they could be identified by. This, of course, would be harder to remember what they look like (they could switch shirts with someone else etc), so it would also be down to 'trusting' the players/team on sticking to the rule.
Time should be stopped when someone is sent off. The time recorded to determine what time they should come back.
A >5 min send off (full game) player is sent off for the remainder of the match but after 5 mins the team can bring in a new player. ALSO the player misses the next match.
General consensus agrees with these points?
I think a good summery. I would vote for.
Are there some arguments left or can this go for proposal?
14B.6.5 Penalty Box
"... The referees should consider the following guidelines when punishing a player:" add afterwards as next sentence: "The referee requests the time to stop."
"...Off for the remainder of the game:" add afterwards as next sentences: "After 5 minutes his team is allowed to bring in a substitute player. A punished player will miss the next game."
14C.2.4 The Timer
"The Timer checks the time of play with a stopwatch and/or with a score board. The time is started whenever the Referee starts the game by blowing the whistle. Each period is ended by the sound of the score board (e.g. horn, bell, gong) or the blowing of a whistle
by the timer. The Timer also stops the time whenever the Referee requests a time out.
Add: "If players were sent off, the timer records the time of these players or a substitute will be allowed to come back."
14C.2.3 The Secretary
"... After the end of the game the Secretary writes the ﬁnal score into the report." > "... After the end of the game the Secretary writes the ﬁnal score into the report. In case a players was sent off for the remainder of the game the secretary add this into the report and informs the hockey director that the player must miss the next match."
I tried to create a proposal but I am only allowed to close this discussion.
I have created a proposal for this now
"The timer should be stopped while referees discuss the ..."