(New Street) Scoring for Runs & Best Tricks (Closed for comments)
Comments about this discussion:
Here's a discussion for scoring for runs and best tricks. I think the point attribution that was used unoffically for slopestyle is pretty good for runs, if you have better idea, please write them down. Or even only if you agree, just write that too so we can know.
Preliminary rounds and finals are judged using the following criteria. The rider’s total score is out of 40 points:
For best trick however I could see this going a few different ways. Here are a few options.
I don't think style is needed in best trick.
But I do like novelty. I think it rewards tricks that are a little bit out of the norm that you dont see every day. So you dont see out fifth from every single competitor (hopefully)
So I like option 4. But possibly without the style element.
As I wrote in the the scoring of new street already:
Would it be a good idea to get a consistent scoring system across flatland and street? This could pretty easily be implemented since the system in which the two disciplines are build will be similar in the future too with a run and then a last trick...
Again, street isn't a run + a last trick like flaltand preliminary. It's runs and last tricks, on a obstacle course.
As stated in the other discussion already.
Street and flatland use basically the same concept of runs and last tricks. And many of the same tricks. And it has the same feel in the tricks. The differences are small. One run instead of two. One last trick instead of multiple.
I suggest to use a similar judging system for similar competitions.
I responded to the scoring discussion. I think the difference between street and flatland is a lot bigger than it seems at face value and probably doesn't need the same scoring. I agree they look very similar just one is done on flat ground and another with obstacles, but when you look at the competition, how difficult it is to land tricks on obstacles combined with the fact that in flatland you don't need to ride between things flatland results in a very large number of tricks being landed in 1min compared to street.
In that sense best tricks in street competition make up a very high number of the total tricks landed in street while in flatland they do not.
And also there are so many tricks that aren't possible to do in flatland compared to street, all grind variations, footplants, stalls, riding rails, jumping over things, tricks done up something, down something, and so on...
While I agree there are or lot of similarities, that doesn't mean it needs to be scored exactly the same way. Steven also pointed out some major differentiating points.
Like Stephen, I don't think style is needed but I really like novelty. Maybe even 70% Difficulty, 30% Novelty. I would like to see riders getting creative here.
I would opt for difficulty and novelty too. The idea to support creative riding seems good.
So 80%, 20% maybe.
I agree with the scoring for runs, and in my opinion, Option 4 is the best for scoring last tricks. I also like that Novelty is added, and I think Style is important too.
Two riders do equally hard flip tricks from the same obstacle as last tricks. One lands on the cranks and do a couple correction hops before getting the foots back on the pedals, the other one lands smoothly on the pedals and rides instantly. The tricks were the same difficulty, therefore the difficulty score should be same, however one was much cleaner than the other. This is a situation where Style is important, and I also think 10% is a good weight.
Mark makes a good point. I didn't really consider the word style to mean execution of a trick.
I considered it more as in does "stand up wheel walk flip out" off a drop have more style than "sej flip off a drop".
Also in terms of my translation of "novelty" in English. I take it to mean that the trick could be new, original, or unusual as in a new crazy trick that no one has seen but ALSO it can be a trick that no one else is doing in the comp. If all people are doing similar tricks as final tricks, and someone throws down a very different trick then in that comp it is novel.
Like a seat whip down would probably be a "novel" trick to me because though it isn't an unusual trick, 99% of the time it is only done on flat. Doing it in a street comp when almost all the other competitors are probably doing variations of treys/fifths/flip underflips makes it very different.
I am not sure if everyone has the same interpretation of what "novelty" can mean so just thought I would put that out there so we know if we are on the same page or not.
Novelty: the quality of being new, original, or unusual.
The only thing that's tough with novelty is that it's hard to score that until the competition is over. If you do a whip and give full points for novelty, then all other riders do it too, you also must give full points for novelty even though it's 100% not original because everyone else did it.
I think option 4. Style is really important as Mark has pointed out. If two riders do the same trick but one is barely landed hopping across the course on cranks and the other is steezy as fuck it's clear the second rider should get more points.
Also, I like the novelty category. To me, that's a way of scoring 'creative' riding. Using lines/obstacles in a different way to other riders.
I think I understood style wrong here. If style is considered the level of cleanliness in execution then that should definitely in there. So Option 4 would be my choice.
I agree with Edd, novelty could only be judged on after seeing all the best tricks. I don't see that as a problem though. Judges writing down the best tricks and after all the riders finish score on the novelty category. Is there any reason against doing that?
Edd, this is for best trick, so no lines allowed here.
That was make judging such more of a pain in the ass than it is right now if you would have to judge all the tricks twice. I ready am against that.
Style is quite broad, so you could reward someone doing different tricks with style points. If you rigid and hops out of tricks, bad style. If you're a smooth rider and don't hop, that's a general consensus, it usually means you have a good style. Do yeyew, quality of execution falls into style. But also if you look different than anyone else when you do your tricks and the tricks you do are different that's also style. It's everything that stick to the looks of your riding.
Yeah I agree with the style definition. It's the overall look of the persons riding. Smoothness of landing, correction/setup hops, stiffness of movement and probably a lot more things I've missed.
I guess style comes under flow for the runs. For me that's what flow is, apart from the obvious having to rev back before doing tricks etc.
I just thought about this:
I think it should be 50% runs and 50% BT!
Finals: 2 or 3 runs, best is kept.
BT: 5 BT, 2 best are kept.
50% of the score is for one run
25% is for one best trick, and other 25% is for the other best trick.
I mean, there are so many possibilities of way to score. I think copying exactly what SLS does (Street League Skateboarding) would be the best, but I'm not sure most people would agree.
SLS system is:
2 runs of 45 seconds
5 best trick attempts
Each run AND best trick received a score on 10. The best 3 or 4 score are kept for a total maximum of 30 or 40 points.
I feel 50% for two (best) tricks and 50% for a run of like 6 tricks is too much for the best tricks, they are usually more technical than the runs though. Maybe 40% for best tricks and 60% for 1 run?
the SLS system probably means you could have a rider win the event with landing only 3 tricks total as long as they are big enough. This could result in less focus on the slopestyle aspect of the event.