Merging Slopestyle and Classic Street
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
Slopestlye has been used since Unicon 2014 but has never been implemented into the rulebook. I feel like both style are only focus on one aspect of street riding and are lacking some other. Slopestyle is about flow & consistency, but we don't get to see big tricks so much, while classic street is only big tricks but not at all about consistency or flow.
From an organizer point of view, having both slopestyle and classic street event at Unicon or other conventions is a pain in the ass, especially classic street which takes for ever to set-up and run.
My idea would be to merge both competition that we have to create something new. It could be as easy as this:
Preliminary round:
- 2 slopestyle run attempts, only best run's score is kept.
- 3 best trick attempt (on any obstacle), only one best trick score is kept.
- Results are added up, and the best 6 to 8 riders go to finals.
Finals:
- 3 slopestyle run attempts, only best run's score is kept.
- 5/6 best trick attempt (on any obstacle), 2/3 best trick score is kept.
- Results are added up, and the final placement are decided by this added up score.
We have done this at Winter EUC in February 2018 and it worked quite great for finals. Riders need to be flowy and consistent in the runs, but then they go HAM in the best trick part, which is GREAT!
What do you think?
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I agree something needs to be done about street.
For me, classic street at unicon was shit. It felt like a slower, not as good to watch version of slopestyle but no-one landed anything because there was less pressure about consistency.
I would prefer to have timed runs on an open course, but I know we've had that in the past and it's been ditched. I would love to somehow implement a jam format because I think it would breed a better atmosphere in which the riders would probably ride better and land bigger tricks. I'm not sure how it could be judged so that the judges don't miss anything though.
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Edd, you mean multiple riders all go at the same time around the whole park? That would be very hard to judge O.o
My favorite way would be a timed run on an open park too, but I haven't really been around when that failed in the past. So I will just believe that you tried that and thought about it.
That said, a combination of slopestyle and classic street seems like a good compromise. Especially for the audience!
We should not only think about riders but also how the competitions are received from people outside urban to get the attention we need and to get more people to start urban.
I feel like slopestyle is fun to watch, it has flow and excitement to it, but is missing the big moments. Classic street is pretty boring to watch for people who don't really know the tricks, beside some obviously sick tricks in between maybe.
So get some of those sick trick moments of street to top of slopestyle is the way to go.
If you only give the riders 5/6 attempt in final and score 2/3 of those, are they still going big though? Or would they play save? Although this might be a case of how you apply points in difficulty to get riders to try hard tricks.
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Ian, yes I mean multiple riders riding at the same time in a 'jam' format. Street League skateboarding works like that so I don't see why we can't make it work.
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I'm surprised people thing have a timed run in a park works well. The problem with unicycling is that it's quite slow and need perfect rev. Going from one obstacle at the end of the course to the other one makes you loos so much time, as opposed to skate or box they just zoom past and go where they want to do a trick.
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I will check out that 'jam' format, sounds interesting.
Emile, the current slopestyle format in which the riders are only allowed to follow one specific path through a possibly already existing park is pretty close to a timed run.
I have not made my mind up on any of this but just for thoughts: build a course as usual, but instead of telling the rider where to start and where to stop find a time that just makes it possible to finish the course for the riders. And then allow them to go through the park the way they want. They can just do it like they do now. Start to finish. But they could also go for other, maybe more creative things. This would allow for more varied riding since it's more open for them. And you could still steer the competition by building the obstacles a certain way. Don't make it completely open and don't give them a 2 minute run, keep it slopestylish, just a bit less restrained.
(and then add the classic street final tricks)
just off the top of my head
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I see, so like a 45 second run kind of thing? Slopestyle runs are extremely short if a rider is good. When riders are bad they take ages. So it would probably be around the settings time to run the comp. Hmm interesting I didn't think of it this way Ian
Also a rider doesn't HAVE to use all of his time, like there's no penality for not using the full time if he already went through the whole course and doesn't want to try more tricks.
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Yes. Enough time for the quick and flowy riders to squeez in a few more tricks maybe and for the slower ones to have enough time to show enough tricks. Although timewise I am not sure, around 45s might work.
And this eliminates some trouble for the judges too. No checking that riders don't go back over the same obstacle multiple times any more.
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I like the slopestyle run + final tricks runs and adding together. Any thoughts from actual street riders?
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I like Ians idea of a 45 second run on an open course. I think having a course where you aren't restricted like in slopestyle promotes more progression. People will interpret the course in different ways. Also, you'll have to plan your run to get everything you want inside the time, so I think you might end up with more interesting runs.
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bump
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Also, for anyone saying we should be both or whatever. The tile could be changed to "Major update of street" as only street is in the rulebook. We still have nothing for slopestyle.
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Yes, slopestyle and street definitely have to be squished back together!
I like the 45 second-rule/pers + 3 last trick attempts a lot :)
With this rule we have a perfect mix between street & slopestyle. Due to the 45sec run people do a '1-shot' run where they can show everyone what they can do on the course, not limited by any direction (=more variety, creativity), while also keeping certain consistency since failing cost time (which is limited now). And with a 'last' trick people can go big.
For finals we can extent it a bit to make it 1min + 5 tricks with 2/3 counting (as mentioned above).
For the scoring system we might also take a look at how the flatland scoring system is evolving and do the same for street? This way we (aside from the amount of last tricks) have a quite similar format for street and flatland just different course (flat vs cool rail, stairs, boxes.. :p )
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Sorry it's taking me so long to weigh in here, fellas. I've been insanely busy the last few months...
The idea being discussed here is way better than the current street format. I tried watching the stream from last Unicon and it was just... so boring. It also doesn't adequately reward creative lines, which I think is something we really need to start highlighting in street. 45 second showcase with a few tries at a banger is a much better format than the current street rules.
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I've been watching slopestyle runs from CMQ and Unicon 2016 and it seems that flawless runs always end up being roughly 30 seconds. People falling once or twice or slower runs tend to be 35 to 40 seconds.
Something like a maximum of 35 or 40 seconds per run should be fine. This way if the course is smaller, the time can be set to 30 seconds for example.
I have asked around for raw footage of Unicon 2018 in Korea to check the time of these runs as well. If it follows the data I previously collected, then 40 seconds should be a pretty good time.
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Those times seem sensible Emile. Do you think the time would start when they jump/start trick/hit rail at the beginning.
In Slopestyle at Unicon Montreal a rider took 2 minutes to pych himself up to do the first jump of his slopestyle run. Would that have been included in his 40 seconds meaning he landed nothing or would you count his time as starting when he went for the first trick
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Time would start with a countdown like in flatland. Like in flatland if you not committing to a trick and just rising you're loosing time.
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How far are we with this? Any new/more finalized ideas?
I think this is one of the most important changes that we should get done by end of June
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Maybe it would be possible to get all the small discussions about the "new street" into one proposal? or would you rather vote on them individually?
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I think one finished proposal about the new street competition would be the best!
What do you guys think of this proposal?
* 1 big section
* min 1, max 2 runs, best run counts.
* Each rider gets between 35 and 45 seconds for their run.
* 2 best trick attempts, best counts
* Time starts with a countdown
Finals:
* min 4, max 8 riders
* min 2, max 3 runs, best run counts.
* 40 seconds/run
* 4 attempts best trick? Best 2 count?
For finals with 8 people and 3 runs I would imagine it would take max 1h16:
3min/ pers for the best tricks, 2min for the runs (3*40sec) = 5 min/pers * 8 = 40min + 36 (max 1,5 min waiting between the runs * 24) = 1h16
The street director decides the exact amount of runs and time prior to the competition.
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I like it! I am unsure if 40 seconds is enough in the finals; perhaps I would set 40 sec for the prelims and 1 min for the finals.
But this is going in a good direction, I hope we will finish this!
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That looks like it would make a good event
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As previously stated, current runs in slopestyle are roughly 30 seconds. I don't see the necessity to double that time. 40-45 seconds sounds pretty fair to me.
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Anyone game to try and write this into a proposal?
Stick with 45 seconds as it is in between what people think and then reassess next time.
I just wrote in the previous proposal for street finals that 6 riders would compete, perhaps consider making a set number for now until we come up with a way to determine how many should compete in finals from the gap of scores?
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11A Overview
11A.1 Definition
Slopestyle Street is a competition held on a dense street course. The competition is divided in two parts; timed runs and Best Trick. Runs are a set amount of time to complete tricks on the course. Best Tricks are individual attempts at landing higher difficulty tricks.
11A.2 Rider Summary
This section is intended as an overview of the rules, but does not substitute for the actual rules.
• Riders must wear shoes and a helmet.
• Any number or type of unicycle is allowed.
• A rider may skip their turn, due to injury or equipment problem.
• You should be aware of the rules regarding equipment failure.
11B Competitor Rules
11B.1 Safety
Riders must wear shoes and helmet. Shin guards are recommended, but not mandatory.
11B.2 Unicycles
Any number of standard unicycles (see definitions in chapter 1D.1) may be used.
11B.3 Rider Identification
No rider identification is required.
11B.4 Protests
Protests must be filed on an official form within 15 minutes of the posting of event results. Protest is only possible against mistakes in calculation or other mistakes not connected to a judge’s subjective score. The Chief Judge must resolve all protests within 30 minutes of receipt of the written form.
11B.5 Results
Preliminary results will be posted once the calculation of the points is done. Results sheets will be posted after each category of an event. The protest periods begins at this point. Finals results may be held off until the award ceremony if it is on the same day.
11B.6 Event Flow
11B.6.1 Riders Must Be Ready The Chief Judge chooses how to handle the riders who are not ready at their scheduled competition time. They may be disqualified or allowed to perform after the last competitor in their category.
11B.7 Preliminaries
Riders will be put into groups of three or four (preferably 4, but in some cases, there may need to be up to 3 groups of 3 depending on the number of competitors). Each group will be given a starting time to proceed to the course. The riders will be assigned an order which should be presented in writing as well as announced before the competition. Riders will have two timed runs to perform as many tricks as possible. After all competitors have completed timed runs, each competitor will have two attempts at a Best Trick. Riders may choose to skip their turn for any reason e.g. in the event of an injury.
11B.8 Finals
The top 6 riders will compete in a finals round held greater than 3 hours after the preliminary rounds. To ensure riders have adequate warm up time and to increase spectator numbers the final round should preferably be held in the afternoon/evening. In the finals, the preliminary zone may be used. The riders will be assigned an order which should be presented in writing as well as announced before the competition. Riders will have four timed runs during finals to perform as many tricks as possible. After completion of the timed runs each competitor will have four attempts at a Best Trick. Riders may choose to skip their turn for any reason e.g. in the event of an injury. There will be 5 judges in the finals. Judges can include preliminary round judges as well as riders that did not make the finals round.
11B.9 Timed Runs
Timed runs are completed anywhere on the course. Runs should use multiple obstacles to complete as many tricks as possible in the allowed time. Remounting is allowed in the event of a failed trick. Timed runs will begin at a countdown or signal from an official and cease at the end of the allotted time.
11B.10 Best Trick
Best Tricks are performed anywhere on the course. Completion of Best Tricks must alternate between competing riders in the predetermined order. A Best Trick must be a single trick or a combo completed on the course.
11C Judges and Officials Rules
11C.1 Slopestyle Street Director
The Slopestyle Street Director is the head organizer and administrator of Slopestyle Street. With the convention host, they are responsible for the event logistics, the equipment and the system used to run the event. They must select the Chief Judge. They are in charge of keeping the event on schedule and answering questions about the event. The Slopestyle Street Director is the highest authority on everything to do with the Slopestyle Street competition, except for decisions on rules and results.
11C.2 Chief Judge
The Chief Judge is the head Slopestyle Street official. They are responsible for selecting the judges, overseeing the competition, handling protests, ensuring the event rules are followed, and answering questions about the rules and judging. The Chief Judge is also responsible for the accuracy of all judging point tabulations and calculations. An interruption of judging can result from material damage, injury of a competitor, or interference with a competitor by a person or object. The Chief Judge determines if the rider is at fault. If they are not, the Chief Judge chooses when to insert the rider back into the competition, along with the rider’s remaining time or attempts. The Chief Judge may be the same person as the Slopestyle Street director.
11C.3 Judges
11C.3.1 Judging Panel
There are three judges per section for the preliminary rounds, and five judges for the finals.
11C.3.2 Selecting Judges
A person should not judge an event if he or she is:
• A parent, child or sibling of a rider competing in the event.
• A coach, manager, trainer or colleague of the same club/team as a rider competing in the event.
• More than one judge from the same country on the same judging panel.
If the judging pool is too limited by the above criteria, restrictions can be eliminated starting from the bottom of the list and working upward as necessary, but only until enough judges are available.
11C.3.3 Judging Panel May Not Change
The individual members of the judging panel must remain the same for an entire category. In the event of an emergency, this rule can be waived by the Chief Judge.
11C.3.3.1 Rating Judge Performance
Judges are rated by comparing their scores to those of other judges at previous competitions. If a judge’s performance is determined to be too weak, they may be removed from the judging panel.
Characteristics of Judging Weaknesses:
• Excessive Ties: Using ties frequently (it defeats the purpose of judging.)
• Bias: Placing members of certain groups or nations significantly lower or higher than other judges.
• Inconsistence: Ranking a large number of riders significantly different from the average of other judges.
11C.3.4 Training
The judges workshop is set by the Slopestyle Street Director or Chief Judge. Either the Slopestyle Street Director or the Chief Judge will run the workshop with the workshop held before the competition. Potential judges should have read the rules prior to the start of the workshop. The workshop will include a practice session, each judge will re-read the rules, agree to follow the rules and agree to their potential removal from the list of available judges if they show excessive judging weaknesses, as determined by the Chief Judge.
11C.3.5 Slopestyle Street Comp Judging
There will be three for the preliminaries, and five judges for the final. The judges will have 5 minutes after each group to discuss the tricks. They should use their preferred system for taking notes during competition (for example: they may take notes of tricks that were landed in that zone or assign point values). It is recommended to ask riders about specific tricks (other riders should be present to justify the response), but neither the riders nor judges may discuss relative difficulty as it could influence the score. After the judges have seen ALL of the riders complete their runs they will rank the riders from best to worst. Each judge is responsible for one set of rankings; they must judge all riders against each other even if they are in different groups. For prelims, the riders will be given points according to their placement. (So 1st place gets one point, 2nd place gets two points, etc.)
The ranking for timed runs should be influenced by the number of tricks done, and the difficulty of the tricks. Consistency should not be considered, because it is inevitable that a consistent rider will land the most tricks. Note that the number of tricks should also not always be the deciding factor on who wins as a rider who performs 18 easy tricks should not be scored higher than someone who performs 3 outstanding tricks. The rankings for Best Trick should be influenced by the difficulty of trick. Riders will only receive points for a number of best attempts in both preliminary rounds and finals.
Prelim
· 2 x 40 second runs, best run is counted
· 2 x Best Trick, best is counted
Finals
· 4 x 40 second runs, best two are counted
· 4 x Best Trick, best 2 are counted
Once the judges assign places for every competitor the results can be calculated with timed runs and Best Tricks providing a percentage of the total points. Timed Runs will provide 70% of the competitors total score with Best Trick providing 30% of the total score for a total of 100%.
After prelims, the top 6 riders with the lowest sum of placement points move on to finals. In finals, the rider with the most points is the winner.
11C.3.6 Sportsmanship
If a rider distracts or delays the competition or shows unsportsmanlike conduct, the Chief Judge may choose to warn or eliminate that rider.
11D Event Organizer Rules
11D.1 Venue
11D.1.1 Slopestyle Street Comp Performing Area
The course is to be composed of a single “zone”. The zone should be large and have a large array of obstacles encouraging a range of specific skills. The list below is an example of typical things that can be used in zones; however designers of the Slopestyle Street comp area should not limit themselves to the exact list.
· A ramp with a skate park rail in the middle, and a ledge on either side. This zone will encourage technical grinds, without giving an advantage to a right or left footed grinder.
· Two different manny pads (a smooth platform of at least 3 m x 0.5 m and between 7 cm and 15 cm in height), one with two revs of length, and one with just one rev of length. This will encourage the ability to perform technical flip tricks and other Street moves while having to set up quickly for the move down.
· A set of 5 stairs and a set of 7 stairs with a handrail in the middle of each (that are of a similar size to one that you would find in a city, not extremely steep). This would encourage the ability to perform bigger moves of all types.
It is also possible to use a real street environment if that is possible. This may result in different obstacles than specified above but provides a 100% real street atmosphere. Independent from the setup a host can go for, they should always take care to offer room for
1. Technical street
2. Grinds
3. Big tricks off larger drops.
The descriptions of the zones above should demonstrate the requirements of ideal course design while offering hosts room to be creative.
11D.1.2 Problems With Required Obstacles
The required obstacles must be built strong enough to endure many hours of heavy use. They need to survive the competition without changing their shape or stability. If one of the required obstacles is broken or made unusable during the competition, it must be repaired if one or more competitors say they need to use the damaged obstacle. If no competitors are impacted by the damage, no repair is necessary except for safety reasons, such as in the event of sharp exposed parts.
11D.1.3 Postponement due to Weather
In the case of rain or bad weather affecting an uncovered Street area, the organizers should postpone the events and exchange all the affected parts of the course for dry ones (replacing pallets for example). Events should be cancelled if considered dangerous. If postponed or moved to an indoor location the organizers must try to keep the allowances the same as outdoors competitions with metal pedals and marking tires allowed. Cancelled competitions should be rescheduled during the convention duration with Slopestyle Street held early in the competition schedule where possible to give a larger period of time for rescheduling.
11D.1.4 Music
In Slopestyle Street, a DJ plays music for the competition.
11D.2 Officials
The host must designate the following officials for Slopestyle Street:
• Slopestyle Street Director
• Chief Judge
The host must designate the Slopestyle Street Director well in advance of the event. For an international event, it is recommended that the Slopestyle Street Director is chosen at least one year in advance so that they may be consulted on scheduling. The Slopestyle Street Director must select the Chief Judge. The Chief Judge may be the same person as the Slopestyle Street director.
11D.3 Communication
Hosts must publicize details of the available competition area as far in advance of the competition as possible. Organizers of international championships must publish this information at least three months prior to the event. For other events, the organizers must specify the venue for the Slopestyle Street competition by the beginning of the convention/competition at the latest.
11D.4 Categories
There are no mimimum categories other than male and female. If there are less than three females or less than three males overall, the male and female categories are merged.
11D.4 Categories
Male and female competitions should be offered in each of the following categories: Junior Expert (0-14), and Expert (15+). The Advanced category is optional however not allowed at World Championships. If there are less than 3 Junior Expert competitors, they may choose whether to compete in Expert or Advanced (if offered). If age group medals are awarded, they will be set as 0-9 (Kids), 10-15 (Junior), 16-34 (Adult) and 35+ (Senior) and based on final placings in either Junior Expert, Expert or Advanced (if offered) competitions. If there are less than three females or less than three males overall, the male and female categories may be merged.
11D.5 Practice
Event organizers must arrange that the course for the Slopestyle Street competition is set up and available to be practiced on before competition. With different time frames depending on the time frame and duration of the convention/competition. Courses should be completed at least 2 days prior to the day of the competition for events greater than 4 days long. For logistical reasons, events of 1 - 3 days can provided the required practice time at the discretion of the competition organizers. This may be provided prior, but on the day of the competition. If practicing on the competition course is not possible prior to the competition day, the organizers may build similar objects at another location for the riders to train on.