14B.5 Number Of Players: Wording
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
"A team consists of five players (plus substitutes). Substituting one player for another is possible at any time. It is not necessary to indicate it to the Referee. The new player must enter the field where the other has left it. Each player can be the goalkeeper at any time. The goalkeeper has no special rights. To take part in a game, a team must have at least three players."
Although this states the new player must enter the field where the other has left it, I feel we need to be clearer that the new player can only enter the field after the other has left it. No big change, just a little wording change that I feel could help with clarification.
I propose we alter this wording.
Comment
I agree with this if that is what we are trying to rule.
I am unsure of if we require the player to have left the field before the replacement enters the field. Some sports such as soccer require the player to have left the field before the other enters, other sports like ice hockey allow both players to be on the field at the same time as long as they are not taking part in the play and are within a short distance of the bench.
Our rules are currently very unclear of what we require.
Comment
I think the soccer rules make more sense and is how it's played already – 2 people help the person leaving the field jump the barricade, 2 people help the new player enter. We might make it clear that the substitution should happen so it doens't block the game (ie, the game should be in the other end of the field).
Comment
I agree that the player leaving the field should have left the field before the new player enters the field but only if there are already the maximum amount of players on the field - e.g., a team should not have to stick to this rule if only one player is being substituted when they only have three players on the field. This will also solve any issues of having more than five players on the field at any given time.
Comment
This is for the moment a discussion only to the time of a replacement. " With the wording "has left it" I had not missunderstanding, but I agree the wording "after has left it" is better for clarification. In practice I see no need to push a team and stopp the game if both players are on the field at the same time as long as they are not taking part in the play and are within a short distance of the bench.
In the german liga it is more important where the replacement is comming in; the german rule force the replacement to come in the field from its own halve of the field (so never come onto the field in the back from the opposing team, what could be an advantage.).
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I like the idea of the new player coming onto the field in their own half! Does anyone know if this is also a rule in other sports? We'd then have the argument of unicycle hockey not having an offside rule, which could be reasoning against the rule.
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I think this should be worded in the way that there can never be more than 5 players on the field but there can be less. Technically during a substitution there's only 4 players on the field for a short moment.
In principle I agree with the notion that the new player should come from the team's own half but practically teams often find a base outside the field and camp there for the duration of the tournament, regardless which end they play in. If teams are close to the middle it shouldn't be such a big problem, especially since most substitutions happen during offensive play anyways.
Comment
If a player must enter where the exiting player has left it doesn't matter if that is on their half of the field or not as a player would have ridden behind the opposition to make that interchange and the opposition should have seen that player ride behind them.
Where it does make a difference is if a player is not interchanging for another but coming on to the field, say a team of 4 goes to 5. In this case you could enter the field without the opposition knowing and it would make a difference.
I am personally not concerned with both players who are interchanging being on the field at the same time as long as they are within close proximity to the spot of change, similar to ice hockey. But I can go either way if we want to be strict about it.
In Australian Football (a rare game not similar to Soccer/Football at all) they have an interchange zone where teams must interchange. This is in the centre of the sideline for both teams and is used as the field is 2 x bigger than a soccer pitch and it could make a difference taking people off one side and putting on another.
Comment
Thinking more about it I think the change should be done at any place along the perimeter. There could be reasons why a player would want to exit one way and the new player come in another way. We usually run competitions pretty tight, and having teams scramble back and forth could add delay.
As long as there's never more than 5 on the field it shouldn't be a problem. If there's 4 on the field and then the 5th comes on it's up to the competitors to look for 5 players and not assume there's just 4.
Comment
Magnus do you mean any place along the perimeter as long as both players enter and exit at the same point? Or a player can leave next to the opponents goal and another player can replace him next to his own goal. In this instance you could use interchanges to defend or attack easier by just keeping a player at either end.
I do think if both players are at the same spot they should be able to interchange at any point on the field
Comment
I was thinking they didn't need to be at the same spot since one needs to leave completely. I doubt you can change fast enough if you have to wait for one to be completely outside the field, except perhaps where the perimeter is extremely low.
I don't feel strongly about it and perhaps it's best they change the same spot. That's how it usually happens anyways. I think as long as one is completely outside (including with unicycle and stick before the next jumps in it's all right.
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The problem I see I have drawn a picture below. European champs and unicon have 40cm high walls, our courts have 40cm high or areas in the corner that you can jump easily.
If a team is defending for a long period and all attackers are near their goal their player can launch the ball from near his sideline to the other end and immediately leave the field so his teammate can join the field at the other end with only him and the goalie in the area.
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I cant seem to get that link to picture to work so here it is again
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That makes sense. In Denmark we typically play with 80-100cm barriers so it's a bit harder to quickly jump in and out.
Specifying the change must occur at the same spot probably makes sense if lots of games are played with 40cm barriers.
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In Italy (UNICON 16) we had in the gym halls only the given walls as boundaries (no extra perimeters), the corners were made with normal approx. 30cm with benches. Only in this benched corners the substitute players could be on or close to the field. Also same organizer of German tournament on high level use this simple setup to maximise the field. So it developed that the substitute players have to be in a corner next to the own goal of a team. If you don´t use this simple setup (you use whatever to create a boundary, barriers or perimeter) the substitute player has to come in at least from his own half side. (Magnus@ "There could be reasons why a player would want to exit one way and the new player come in another way." E.g. Injured or due to a broken or flat unicycle you will leave the field on the shortest way and there would be no need for a substitute player to as a maximum walk around half of the field to enter the field where the other has left it.
Now back to numbers of players, Magnus@ "as long as there's never more than 5 on the field it shouldn't be a problem." For me it is more important to recognize that no changing player is taking part in the play (this stand for only 4 active players). And a >normal< change (at the same time or as the rule says) will not take longer than 5 seconds.
Comment
Summary
Discussion Point 1 Does a player have to leave the field where the other has left
General consensus is that a player must enter the field where the other player has left it.
Discussion Point 2 Does a player have to leave the field 100% before the other joins.
In Australia and Germany as long as the players are not taking part in play and are near the bench the players can be on the field at the same time.
Other thoughts are that we should change this to the player MUST leave before the other player gets on court.
Discussion Point 3 Do we need a certain place on the field where people have to change/enter the field i.e. own half etc
General consensus player must be within own half. This is probably the "best" ruling. Otherwise you have issues with players changing from behind defenders without the defenders knowing.
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Do other committee members have an opinion on this?
Comment
1) I agree with "player must enter the field WHERE the other player has left it". Currently, I don't see any situations where this rule does not make sense. (By the way, in Switzerland we usually change players in the corner of the own goal)
Regarding the mentioned example "Injury of a player": In my eyes, this is a situation where a referee takes a timeout. If the game is then interrupted, I don't see a problem when the substitute player doesn't enter the field at the same location as the injured player has left it.
2) With a wording like "a player has to leave the field completely before the other joins the game", we choose the easiest way for the umpire to decide if a substitution was correct or not. In Switzerland, we strictly handle this rule in this way and don't have any problems. Also for the players it is very clear to understand how to substitute in a correct way. In my Opinion the current wording already clearly says that the player may only come on the field after the other has left the field. However, we can precise the wording for clarification.
3) I agree with the statement, that it doesn't matter where the substitution happens, as long as point 1 is followed. I agree, there might be a small problem, if a team raise from 4 to 5 players. For such situations I can imagine to have a rule that the player must enter the field in the own halfside. However, can you give me some examples about such situations? When does this situations happen and how often?
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I could imagine a wording as following (english wording can be still improved):
A team consists of five players (plus substitutes). Substituting one player for another is possible at any time. It is not necessary to indicate it to the Referee. The new player is only allowed to enter the field after the other has completely left it. The substitution of the two players must be done at the same location. Each player can be the goalkeeper at any time. The goalkeeper has no special rights. To take part in a game, a team must have at least three players.
And for point 3 we could add something like "If a team plays with less than five players for a while, they can substitute a new player at any time somewhere in the own halfside." However, I am not sure whether this is really necessary.
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Another approach would be to have an additional rule "incorrect player substitution" or "too many players on the field" in section fouls, which says something like this:
It is not allowed at any time to have more than five players on the field. The substitution of two players must be done at the same location.
Consequently, in 14 B.5 we would have:
A team consists of five players (plus substitutes). Substituting one player for another is possible at any time. It is not necessary to indicate it to the Referee. The new player must enter the field where the other has left it. Each player can be the goalkeeper at any time. The goalkeeper has no special rights. To take part in a game, a team must have at least three players.
Comment
I try an other Mix of wording:
14 B.5 Number Of Players
A team on the field consists of up to five players (plus substitutes). To take part in a game, a team must have at least three players. Substituting one player for another is possible at any time. The new player is only allowed to enter the field at the same location after the other has completely left it. It is not necessary to indicate it to the Referee. Each player can be the goalkeeper at any time. The goalkeeper has no special rights.
(Wording is waiting for improvement by native speaker but should be easy to understand.)
No need for an extra heading in Fouls. We have already "2-min Intentionally having too many players on the field" (14B.6.5 Penalty Box).
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good, I also prefer to combine the two sentences.
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Nice suggestions!
I agree with Herbert's combination of the wording.
Would it be wise to also introduce a rule where a team captain must make it clear if they are changing from 4 players to 5 players? Not only the other team, but the referee can get very confused if this happens unnoticed, especially if the play is somewhere else on the field. I'd like to know other's opinions on this.
Comment
14 B.5 Number Of Players
A team on the field consists of up to five players with a minimum of three players. Player substitutions are possible at any time with the substituting player entering the field at the same location only after the other has completely left it. It is not necessary to indicate substitutions to the Referee. Each player can be the goalkeeper at any time. The goalkeeper has no special rights.
Comment
I dont see a need to make it clear that you are changing the the maximum allowable people on the field. Referee wise whether or not they have 4 or 5 on the field it changes nothing as you don't scan all 5 players repeatedly when refereeing if they are not in the play.
For the team that you are playing, they had the benefit of having an advantage over your 4 players for a time, if they think its a disadvantage to not be aware that you are now at full strength then too bad.
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I think Stevens last compressed text ("14 B.5 Number Of Players ...") is a good wording, I would vote for.
Proposal?
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Please have a look to last comment in discussion 4B.5 (should be 14B.5) Numbers of Player - Clarification if a team has less than 3 Players