Why do we have the split between Track: Racing and Track: Other
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
The split between Chapters 2 and 3 is inconvenient, in my view. Most rules are the same, chapter 3 often refers to chapter 2.
Also, the split is incomplete. E.g. there is no IUF slalom in 2B.6, yet it appears in 2D.5.
The only difference seems to be that events in chapter 2 are required, and events in chapter 3 are optional. Since I believe we will have a list of required events in the Main chapter, I would suggest that we do away with the split and thus create a more streamlined Rulebook.
If we would agree on this, it concerns way too much text to fit in a full-text proposal.
Let's then agree on the principle and leave the process of working this out to whoever implements the changes in the new Rulebook.
Comment
To add:
Unlimited Track Racing is referred to in 2B.2 and 2B.5 but mostly resides in Chapter 3.
Slow Race and IUF Slalom are referred to in 2B.7, but mostly reside in Chapter 3.
Also there is a lot of duplication between the two chapters, which can (largely?) be eliminated if we merge the two.
Comment
If some of the fun races are removed from chapter 3, then I am more in favor of this. The creation of chapter 3 was done to clean up chapter 2 greatly. This is perhaps less important if we remove much of chapter 3.
Comment
I think even if there are many similar rules between chapter 2 and 3, there is a big difference: With exception of the IUF Slalom all disciplines described in chapter 2 are track races for which there are common rules (Start, Finish, Lane assignments, etc.) The disciplines described in chapter 3 are actually no races but rather "technical disciplines" for which the common rules do not apply.
I think if we really merge chapter 2 and 3 and - I wouldn't be averse to that in principle - then we would have to completely revise the structure of the new chapter in order to make the differentiation between the track races and the technical disciplines clear and thus clearly distinguish which common rules there are for which disciplines.
Comment
Most disciplines in Chapter 3 are indeed not races. Some exceptions are Slalom (which is moved to Chapter 2 but had no lane assignments), and some fun races (juggling, UW etc) which probably will be removed.
Then we still have 700c racing and unlimited racing, both in the Track version. Maybe we should leave these out too, they are rarely done on the track. And while they are potentially serious races, in the context of our usual track races they can be considered 'fun' events. Thoughts on this? John may not be happy to get rid of them, he has been advocating for a long time to move away from 24 inch wheels. I think 700c and unlimited track racing may have been included upon his request/proposal.
Your assessment is correct: we have to revise the structure. A lot of rules are common for Chapter 2 and 3, but also quite a few rules apply in Chapter 2 but not in 3, while in Chapter 3 each discipline more or less has its own rules. That's why I suggested that if we agree on the principe to merge 2 and 3, we should not try to work it out in full detail in this committee but leave that to whoever implements the changes from the subcommittee(s).
Comment
My thoughts on each event:
3B.6.1 Relay (Track) move to chap 2
3B.6.2 Coasting Events
3B.6.2.1 Road Coasting remove
3B.6.2.2 Track Coasting Move to chap 2, merge and simplify with 3B.6.2
3B.6.2.3 Downhill Coasting remove
3B.6.2.4 Indoor Coasting remove
3B.6.3 Gliding Events
3B.6.3.1 Slope Glide Or Track Glide Move to chap 2, separate two gliding events into two separate rules, update to be just track glide
3B.6.3.2 Downhill Glide move to chap 2, separate
3B.6.4 Slow Forward (rename) do not move to chap 2, maybe rename chap 3? "Technical events"?
3B.6.5 Slow Backward keep in chap 3
3B.6.6 Slow Giraffe Race remove
3B.6.7 Stillstand keep in chap 3
3B.6.8 700c Racing move to chap 2 or remove, maybe simplify and consolidate with Unlimited as "Other wheel sizes"
3B.6.9 Unlimited Track Racing move to chap 2 or remove, see above
3B.6.10 Juggling Unicycle Race remove
3B.6.11 Ultimate Wheel Race remove
3B.6.12 50m Fast Backward remove
3B.6.13 Medley remove
Comment
I'd agree with you about your remove markings. But if we move track coasting and the gliding events to chapter 2, then we have four more "technical disciplines" in chapter 2 that are no races like the other disciplines in chapter 2 - what distinguishes them from the Slow disciplines? Wouldn't it make more sense to distinguish between "races" and "technical disciplines" (no matter if in one or two chapters), because especially the races have many common rules.
A structure that I could well imagine and think would make sense would be something like this:
X.1 Races
X.1.1 Standard Racing Disciplines
X.1.1.1 100m
X.1.1.3 400m
X.1.1.3 800m
...
X.1.2 Start
X.1.3 Rules for lane-bound races
X.1.4 Rules for non-lane-bound races
...
X.2 Technical Disciplines
X.2.1 Standard Technical Disciplines
X.2.1.1 IUF Slalom
X.2.1.1 Track Coasting
X.2.1.1 Track Gliding
...
Comment
Do we want to add 200m? In the WRC, you suggested this, exactly half a year ago (21-11-2018).
And conveniently, you have X.1.1.2 still vacant. :-) But 800m would have to become X.1.1.4.
Comment
You got it ;) Of course I would like to include the 200m in the rulebook as an official competition discipline - although not as a necessary unicon discipline. If we were to delete rule 2D.5 and the sentence under 2B.6, I think it would also be easier to insert the discipline as X.1.1.2. Of course 800m should be the X.1.1.4...
Comment
Agreed that 200m is not required for Unicon.
Comment
Looks like good steps toward organizing things so they make more sense.
Looking at the format, if the 200m race were added it would not be a big deal.
I would hope to retain the vision of 700c racing, but I realize nobody seems to be interested these days. Is it because maximum speed is probably not as easy to run out of in a dismount? That would be a concern for me....
History on 700c: I think it was first held at Unicon XI in Tokyo, with a 100m and a 1600m race. We did them again in Switzerland for Unicon XII, but I'm not sure how much after that. I thought it would be the future of Track racing, but that future seems to still be, maybe, in the future. Meanwhile, it's hard to find a decent 24" tire to fit my (narrow) Miyata, even on Amazon! :-(
Several of those "track" races aren't held on the track, though some use Track unicycles. I consider the Slalom to be a Track event, and hope it can usually be held on those track infields that have the same riding surface as the rest of the track. Also it works well to run it on Track days. But the non-track or "Off-Track" races don't have to all be in the same section. If we divide them, it should be based on rule similarities or dissimilarities. Coasting and Gliding events fit together. Slalom fits with Track, etc.
Comment
I like Jan's structure to have it all in one chapter. I also like Scott's verdicts on keep and remove.
Implementing all of this is going to be a major rewrite and not feasible within the current time limit.
I repeat my suggestion from my opening post that if we agree on the principle, we leave implementation to whoever will process the passed proposals. To be formally correct, I will soon write a proposal that expresses this so we can officially vote for it.
Comment
Klaas, I agree, with the suggestion that I can have you and Jan look over my restructuring after I implement it.
Comment
That's fine for my part, but we need to discuss the timing in view of my holiday plans. Maybe we can do that over e-mail.
Comment
That's fine for me too.
Comment
In the proposal as it currently appears:
- I notice the word 'Standard' in X.2.1. I recommend we avoid that word and replace with Traditional (or similar)
Comment
I think you're right. "Standard" has too many meanings in the Rulebook and the unicycling world in general.
It's also in X.1.1, by the way, which has the same problem.
Maybe we can just delete "Standard" without replacing by something else. Then you get Racing Disciplines and Technical Disciplines. Clean and easy. Wadduya think?
Comment
That works.
Comment
I have edited the proposal.
But I have one concern now: What is the difference between X.2 and X.2.1. Or in other words: is there a X.2.2 and what is it about?
This is Jan's text, maybe he can tell?
Comment
I agree with the removal of the "Standard".
Since we have no common rules for all technical disciplines (so far), I think there will be no X.2.2. I inserted point X.2.1 mainly to keep the structure consistent with section X.1. And maybe in the future there will be a common rule that can become section X.2.2 without having to change the structure.
Comment
I would rather have Slalom, Gliding, Coasting etc directly under X.2. Especially since the proposed text now has two identical headings separated by one hierarchical level. If in the future a need arises to have X.2.2, we can change the structure as yet - and hopefully think of different headings for X.2 and X.2.1.
To me it's not a problem that the structure is not symmetrical between X.1 and X.2. Races naturally have a lot of things in common, technical disciplines much less so.