Timing, Photo Finish and False Start Monitoring (Closed for comments)
Comments about this discussion:
Started
This discussion is about ways to make Road racing results more reliable. I have started a similar discussion in the Track subcommittee, where it is potentially even more important because of the shorter times involved. E.g. false start monitoring is rarely, if ever, used in Road Racing, I think.
The following is an edited (by me) quote from the World Record Committee discussions, originally authored by Jan Vocke.
"I think the last UNICON has shown which problems can occur with the timing of the track races if the used timing system is not a fully automatic system. The fact that the achieved performances at the UNICON were not recognized as World Records has been the consequence.
"In order to avoid something like this in the future, I think we should specify which requirements a timing system must fulfil so that the results can be recognised as World Records.
"In my opinion, there are two essential requirements for the timing system that the system must be tested for and for which the system must have a certificate of accuracy:
1. The System must record the finish through a camera positioned in the extension of the finish line, producing a composite photo finish image of at least 1000 images per second.
2. The System shall be started automatically by the Starter’s signal, so that the overall delay between the start signal and the start of the timing system is constant and equal to or less than 0.001 second.
"In addition to fully automatic timing systems, I consider electronic false start monitoring to be an important contribution to reliable and verifiable world records in track racing. A false start monitoring system must be able to reliably detect a crossing of the start line before the start signal. From my own experience I would say that with a false start monitoring without technical equipment, false starts from about 250 ms before the start signal are only recognizable for experienced judges and with concentration on a single rider, from about 100ms they are practically no longer recognizable. But especially with the short distances these times can be decisive.
"Maybe further rules are necessary, e.g. how to align such a photo-finish camera and a false start monitoring system and how to determine times from the photo finish image."
(end of quote, remainder of text by me)
A related question is: whom do you assign a false start to, in case a false start has appeared? In Track racing, Swiss Timing assign a false start only to the earliest (and too early) starter. I don't know if this is a technical limitation, or done on purpose. If A starts 400 ms too early, and B starts 200 ms too early, is B to blame? I doubt it. Riders are tense during the start, and it is difficult not to respond to someone who starts riding. I would propose that in general, only the earliest false starter per start is 'punished'.
Comment
I agree that the earliest false starter should be the only rider given the false start penalty.
Comment
Are you suggesting to change 4D.11, third bullet?
Or that whole section?
Comment
I have just read the rule and have some questions. I am not actually sure what the rules are currently.
Is it...
Option 1 - A false start is allowed in any heat, but the rider that causes that false start has a mark against him for the rest of that heat or race or the whole event? but is allowed to restart. If he false starts again he is disqualified... is the heat stopped and re-run? So with this option you could get 8 or more re-starts, with each rider given a second chance?
Option 2 - For first false start everyone can restart. There is no second false start allowed and the rider causing the false start is disqualified (are they allowed to finish and then disqualified?). What happens if there are multiple false starters, are they all disqualified, reading the rule it implies they are. Although it should say "Thereafter, all riders who false start are disqualified".
Option 3 - That heat will continued and a time penalty is received by all riders who false start (eg +10 seconds). How and when is that penalty decided, before the event or after it?
I assume these options are announced before the event and can be specific to that race, so the 100m could be different from the marathon?
Comment
@Connie, I was just opening a discussion without thinking of specific text changes. (In the old days we used to start with a proposal, this is now discouraged.)
My last paragraph in the first post can be addressed by changing only the third bullet. But actually, I think the time penalty is the most common option and should be the first one listed AND the one recommended for all types of starts. The option that is now at the top is probably the least used one. So I think that the order of the three options should be reversed (which indeed implies that the whole section is changed).
Note that my post is not just about how to deal with false starts once they are assessed, but also about the way that false starts are detected in the first place, and about requirements for the timing system and finish camera. How do committee members think about those issues - do we want to specify requirements?
@Roger: I don't understand all of your questions, but let me state a couple of points how I understand the current rules:
Which of the three listed option is used in any particular event (such as 10k) must be announced before the event. This can be different for another event (e.g. Marathon). 100m is separate anyway, because it is not a road race.
In the first two options listed, the heat is stopped and re-run after every false start. A disqualified rider is taken out of the riders group, and should not ride and finish.
If there are n riders, you could get a maximum of 2n restarts in option 1, and n+1 restarts in option 2.
What happens with multiple false starters in the same heat is subject of my last paragraph. Yes, in the current rule they should all be disqualified. My personal opinion is that just the earliest false starter should be penalised. Scott agrees.
Your text "Thereafter, all riders who false start are disqualified" is correct, but the current text seems also correct to me.
The magnitude of the false start penalty in option 3 (10 seconds is given as an example) is decided by the Race Director or some other official in the organisation (we don't need to prescribe how he decides) and must be announced before the event.
Hope this helps.
Comment
If anyone wants to regulate the way false starts are detected, requirements for the timing system and/or the finish camera (all of this for Road racing), please speak up very soon.
I will soon make a proposal anyway for the other issues mentioned. But without further responses, I will exclude those 'technical' system requirements (while at the same time making a note to discuss them in the next round). Frankly, I feel that at this moment, that is the best way to go about it.
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Klaas, I agree with you.
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I have created proposal #70. I could have done it from this discussion, but didn't. I will now close this discussion. Any further discussion can be done in https://iuf-rulebook-2018.committees.unicycling-software.com/discussions/153