12D.12 Tie Breaking (Closed for comments)
Comments about this discussion:
Started
Currently there is a discussion (#10) and a proposal (#21) for dealing with tie breaking in the finals. If a competition has age groups, there are often ties. Due to the nature of many heats and age groups in large competitions, it is often difficult to determine ties until hours after the event ends. Finding riders to participate in tie-breaking is often difficult.
At Unicon 19 it is my understanding that tie breakers were based on time. I propose to officially add this to the rulebook as an option.
12D.12 Tie Breaking
OLD
A tie occurs when the competition finishes and one or more riders have completed the same number of sections. The Course Setter should collaborate with the tied riders to create a new, “tiebreaker section” at an appropriate level of difficulty. …..
NEW
A tie occurs when the competition finishes and one or more riders have completed the same number of sections. There are two options to break the tie:
1. Time the rider turns in their score card. Organizers must announce this ahead of time and clearly record the time so this is consistent for multiple heats.
2. The Course Setter …
Comment
Any comments on this? If I make a proposal, will you all vote for it?
Comment
It is important that according to the new proposals, we will have different rules for tie breaking for age groups and for the finals.
Timing only counts in the Final.* There are too many competitors and usually not enough judges during qualification to do time-stamping properly - so I believe for age-group ties, the current rules will remain for now; to set up a tie-breaker line. For finals, we have a new system that is being discussed in proposal #21.
* I mean time-stamping the completion of each line. If a rider finishes earlier than the end of the prelims, the time when they hand in their score-card is registered on the score-card - if a tie occurs, and one of the riders finishes earlier, that is an advantage. However this is currently not in the rulebook as far as I know; but this is widely used at events.
Comment
My proposal is about tie-breaking for the age groups. I can make that clearer in the new text.
My opinion that it is much easier to set up a system for time-stamping than it is to set up tie-breaking lines and find all competitors hours after the heats are completed and results tabulated.
Comment
I dont think we can set up a time stamp for every individual line in prelims we could only do time of handing in scorecard.
Could we just place age groups equal in the case of prelim ties UNLESS they also go to finals which then will decide their placing?
I have made the changes to the large bulk of the tiebreaker rules.
This discussion needs to be finalized to decide the changes for age group ties.
Comment
Clarification: I was only planning on documenting the time the rider handed in their score card.
Ties do need to be broken.
Comment
Do you mean ALL tiebreaks or just ties for podium places?
Comment
It is definitely possible to break all ties using the proposed method.
If the data is entered after a wave is complete, the organizers will not know who might tie, so all time-stamps would need to be recorded.
Comment
Attempt to clear up a few things and using the text from Proposal 21:
12D.12 Tie Breaking
Age group or preliminary (if used): The tie may be broken by the time the rider turns in their score card. Organizers must announce this ahead of time and clearly record the time so this is consistent for multiple heats.
Finals: In the case of multiple competitors finishing the finals round on equal points, riders will be separated by time taken to complete final line with preliminary results used in the case of equal finishing times.
The time stamp given by the line judge will be used to separate competitors, with the fastest completion time of lines (to the minute) receiving the higher placing. In the event that the time stamp does not separate tied riders, the preliminary round results will be used for placings. If competitors remain tied after finals points, finals time stamp and preliminary round points, no tie breaker will occur and the riders will finish equal.
Comment
A few more edits. My changes including some of Connie's underlined.
12D.12 Tie Breaking
Age group or preliminary (if used): The tie may be broken using the time the rider turns in their score card. Organizers must announce this ahead of time and clearly record the time from a consistent source to insure fairness across multiple heats.
Finals: In the case of multiple competitors finishing the finals round on equal points, riders will be separated by the time they completed their last line with preliminary results used in the case of equal finishing times.
The time stamp given by the line judge will be used to separate competitors, with the fastest completion time of lines (to the minute) receiving the higher placing. In the event that the time stamp does not separate tied riders, the preliminary round results will be used for placings. If competitors remain tied after finals points, finals time stamp and preliminary round points, no tie breaker will occur and the riders will finish equal.
Question: Will we write anywhere else in the rulebook that each line should be timestamped during finals using a synchronized source? Otherwise it should be included in this proposal.
Comment
This text will be added to Proposal 21 once finalized.
One more thought, there should be one more tie-breaking for the prelims.
Age group or preliminary (if used): The tie may be broken using the time the rider turns in their score card. Organizers must announce this ahead of time and clearly record the time from a consistent source to insure fairness across multiple heats. If there is still a tie, it will be broken by the quantity of “hard” lines, then quantity of “medium” lines, and then the quantity of “easy” line. If there is still a tie, then the riders will finish equal.